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Palo Alto School Representative

Center for training, intervention and research

Strategic systemic approach and hypnosis

      advances in the institutionalization
      of the profession of systems engineer

      Audrey Becuwe

      Audrey Becuwe is HDR Lecturer in Management Sciences at IAE Limoges, researcher in human resources management and organizational behavior.

      Transcription

      Indeed, I am going to talk to you about a research work that we are currently conducting with Grégoire Vitry on the profession of systems engineer and its recognition. I take this opportunity, moreover, to express my thanks to Grégoire for our stimulating exchanges and to tell him again of the pleasure I have in working with him.

      I will introduce myself very quickly, in a few words. I am Audrey Becuwe. I am currently a lecturer in human resources management at the University of Limoges and a researcher at CREOP. So, I am going to present to you a work which is not finished and which we are carrying out together with Grégoire Vitry, which everyone must know and who, as a reminder, holds a doctorate from the University of Paris, director of LACT and president of the Sypres union.

       Indeed, we have seen how much mental health has deteriorated with the health crisis. However, as you know, comprehensive biopsychosocial care makes it possible to prevent and resolve psychological and relational problems in complex situations. This is why training professionals in systemics and participating in the recognition of a trade, namely the trade of systemicist, seems to be part of the response to the challenge of mental health. But the question that arises is: what actions should be taken to gain recognition and therefore to institutionalize a new profession, in this case the profession of systems engineer? Scientific research is able to enlighten us on the process of institutionalizing a profession, in particular on the issues, the institutional work to be carried out and the difficulties to be overcome so that this profession, precisely, is recognized.

      This is why, with Grégoire, we have decided to initiate research on this theme that we position in management sciences. So, it is true that we often say "management science, science for action" and this refers to the idea that management science not only aims to produce knowledge, but also to action that can take the form of a recommendation to economic and political decision-makers, but also, of course, active participation in the ongoing changes initiated by actors. Therefore, in this research, we rely on a grid of intelligibility rooted in the sociology of professions and in neo-institutional sociology, and we have set up a methodological approach in three stages.

      So we have already started and we are conducting together, with the precious help of Claude de Scorraille and Olivier Brosseau, individual interviews with prescribers such as directors of human resources or occupational physicians, but also with experts, with actors who are experts on the subject. So, of course, these are the club presidents of the Sypres union, the school principals who train the system and, in general, professionals who are familiar with this field, as well as teacher-researchers who are also specialized in systemic.

      We complete this first study by leading three focus groups. We have already made two. One on the profession of education systems engineer, the other on that of work systems engineer. And we have a third focus group to be held next week on the profession of clinical systems engineer. The third stage of this methodology includes a quantitative study that we will build on the basis of what emerges in this first qualitative phase. So, naturally, today, we are not going to present to you the first results that emerge in an exhaustive way, but we are going to center our remarks around two points.

      Namely, first, to share with you our reflections on the system as being able to produce, at the same time, a skill and a trade. And secondly, on the concrete actions to be carried out so that the profession of systems engineer is recognized. These elements are, of course, based on what we were told by the professionals who took part in the focus groups, in particular.

      So, indeed, to answer the question of whether the system is a skill or a trade, it is necessary, beforehand, to be clear on the distinction between these two notions. Competence is a combination of ability to act, grouped within knowledge, know-how and relational know-how that are still called "soft skills" today. It is generally mobilized appropriately in relation to a given work situation to obtain a result. Therefore, this skill can be common to several professions. The job, meanwhile, focuses on skills, but also on activities.

      It also includes a set of moral rules specific to the community to which one belongs and to a professional identity which makes it possible to define oneself socially. "I am a coach", it is not the same as if "I am a mediator" or if "I am a systemician". Concretely, to further illustrate this distinction between skills and profession, Grégoire often takes an example that is very telling, that of osteopathy. The osteopath is a profession that can be practiced full-time by some after several years of training. But it can also be skills acquired, for example, by physiotherapists and which they will use in a more marginal way in the exercise of their activity.

      Having said that, it is also interesting to specify what is meant by the recognition of a profession. Here again, our exchanges with Grégoire Vitry make it possible to distinguish three levels of recognition for a profession. The first level is the level of psychotherapist which can also correspond to registration in the specific directory of France Skills which therefore recognizes skills there. Level two, above, is the registration of the profession in the RNCP, in the National Directory of Professional Certifications. There, again, via France Skills. The typical example is the example of the professions of osteopath, sophrologist or even art therapist.

      Then, finally, the third level, even a little more ambitious, is when a profession is deployed by a ministry, when one has a state title, as is the case for the profession of psychologist. These concepts being defined, we can now share with you, in preview, the first results of our qualitative study.

      First question, the question of knowing if it is a skill or if the system is a profession. We can already answer that, of course, it can be a skill held by professionals, by a teacher, by a manager, but it can also be a job because, as our experts have said , the systemic, the systemicist is characterized by the fact, of course, of taking charge of collective problems, that is to say that he deals with systems and groups. His role is then different from that of the doctor who deals more with the individual alone (taken element).

      Then, the management is done at a level where complexity has taken over, that is to say where the irrational and the emotional have taken over. Our experts told us that ultimately, this job is a bit like the job of "problem-solver", solving problems in complex situations that involve the system, the group and the individual in their context. Like mediators who intervene in various spheres, the profession of systemician is available in several fields to take three main forms today. That of clinical systemicist, that of work systemician and finally, that of education systemician.

      The skills inherent in these professions have been formalized by working groups and are visible on the Sypres union website. We are going to continue this presentation by evoking the actions to be put in place to institutionalize the profession of systems engineer as they have been prioritized by our experts. How to recognize the job? First action: communicate. Communicate, yes, but what are the arguments to put forward? Our experts therefore told us that the first argument, in their view, which should be highlighted, is that of efficiency. One of them even had the pretty phrase "efficiency is about smooth and inexpensive change" in very sensitive situations, typically situations of harassment or conflict. And it is true that the scientific articles published by Grégoire Vitry and his colleagues clearly show the efficiency of the systemic approach since, on average, Grégoire Vitry shows that the duration of treatment is evaluated at 5.5 months — 5.3 sessions — and that the success rate, the resolution of the problem is 81%.

      The second argument to communicate is that the systemician participates in a global approach to health. Finally, the third argument to put forward is that it acts at a level where complexity has taken over and that it is able to deal with uncertainty. Nevertheless, two major points of vigilance emerged from the focus groups concerning these communication actions. The first really emphasizes the idea of ​​not being theoretical in the way we communicate.

      Thus, going into explanations, for example, of what homeostasis is is likely to lose an audience uninitiated in the systemic approach. The second point of vigilance invites to avoid being in a comparative logic by saying, for example, that the systemic approach would be better than other approaches. The second major action that needs to be implemented to institutionalize this profession is, of course, recruiting; recruit system engineers. There, we finally wondered where these systemicists would practice. They practice first in independent firms according to our professionals. In terms of recruitment, according to our experts, the ideal would be for public policies to recommend the recruitment of labor system specialists for companies with more than 500 employees.

      In the field of education, it would be a question of recruiting at least 1000 systemicians, or even more up to 5000. So, the focus group on the profession of clinical systemician having not taken place, we have not yet initial results in this area on the recruitment axis. The third major action to be taken is to train and train in these professions, work system specialist, clinical system specialist, education system specialist, and offer training which can also be a diploma and university degree at a minimum, such as university diplomas which are local university diplomas and not national — but in the long term, national, it is also something that is advocated.

      Then, the fourth major action to institutionalize the profession is lobbying, that is to say political actions. It would obviously be a matter of further improving the institutional visibility of the Sypres trade union, which already exists and which has already done an enormous amount of work, and perhaps of further promoting the normative work which has been carried out and which will, more and more , to legitimize the fact that systemics is a profession. Concretely, what does that mean? This means that Sypres specifies, basing itself, moreover, on the practices of institutional actors working in related fields, that it is necessary to have followed at least 500 hours of training over three years to claim the profession of systemicist.

      Beyond this visibility, it is also a question of continuing political actions, in particular of meeting parliamentarians as Grégoire Vitry and his colleagues have already initiated, by coming up with proposals such as the one, of course, the first, recognize the profession of systems engineer with a state diploma, offer system training in university courses. Then, many other proposals such as raising awareness, such as the fact that public policies can raise awareness, for example, companies of biopsychosocial care to support employees. So I was, of course, very concise and many other things came out of this first qualitative study. To respect the allotted time, I will stop there and thank you for listening.

      A team of more than
      50 trainers in France
      and abroad

      of our students satisfied with
      their training year at LACT *

      International partnerships

      The quality certification was issued under
      the following category of actions: Training action

      A team of more than
      50 trainers in France
      and abroad

      of our students satisfied with
      their training year at LACT *

      International partnerships

      The quality certification was issued under
      the following category of actions: Training action

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